Baker is correct anything that we can imagine will be speculation at best, for we have no clear definition as to what the finger of God wrote in the sand that day.

I believe He wrote Deuteronomy 22:22. Yes, I believe He quoted scripture. I bet you're saying, “you are only saying that because you are a preacher-man”
Deut: 22:22
“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall BOTH of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.”

Talking about reason for speculation, who was the man, why was he not brought with the woman. Maybe he was one of the religious leaders, or one of the top-level city officials. There is no doubt they knew who he was… taken in the very act.

We don’t have to speculate that there is not a lot of difference today; there is many that are adding to and taking away from God’s Word to satisfy the desires of the flesh.

One thing we do not have to speculate about is this abundant mercy…..
Oh how sweet the river of mercy when one is standing in the midst of a drought of judgment… nice aeryck. Jesus does love us, no matter what we have done.

Thanks for commenting whip.

preacherman

We are told in the 6th and 8th verse that Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground. What do you think he wrote, and why?

When I taught this lesson to the teen-age sunday school, we speculated that Jesus wrote the names of the women the accusers had commited adultery with...to show them that they were no better than the women the accused.

It's all sepculation, but it makes for a nice story.

Oh, but I do speculate on that, preacherman, because honestly, I don't see it.

You can't see it whip, until you see His righteousness. Once you get a glimps of His righteousness, you get a clearer understanding of our sin.

It is only by God's mercy that we are not consumed.

It is not in man's authority to question God's reasons. For His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. He does not have to justify His actions to His creation.. Hath the power of the potter over the clay? I would say so. Nevertheless not our will but thine be done.

The idea that Satan himself causes all the world's misery is just a cop out, since "satan" is himself a creation of God.

Satan does not need you to defend him and his modus operandi... he is already judged, it's just M.O.T. (matter of time)

preacherman

Thanks for your comment dharmagrl.... hence the mercy and forgiveness of God.

preacherman

I have to agree with Whip on this one. More cruelty has been doled out over the years in the name of god than stalin and hitler combined. The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades alone prolly surpass the estimated 20 + million killed by Adolf and Uncle Joe.

God is the ultimate justification for death. You dont believe in my god or my church? That makes you an infidel by default. So you gotta go.

I think Jesus would be horrified if he came back and saw the cruelties and atrocities performed in his name.

He probably wrote "father, protect me from my followers"

God is the ultimate justification for death.

So you blame the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man and his actions on God? Do you think that is a little shallow?

I think Jesus would be horrified if he came back and saw the cruelties and atrocities performed in his name.

There is some validity to your statement, but I can assure you His heart would still be broken for so many that have rejected salvation in His name. You do realize He cares for your soul?

preacherman

Whip, ' Jesus was here ' ..?... I thought about this one day when I was taking a walk with my dog Cassie and my son Daniel who was 11 at the time. The sandy path is an excellent place to leave one's signature, for Cassie it was as much urine as her bladder would allow, for me it was a cross out of twigs, which was latter mangled to pieces by my neighbours angry son on his motorcycle. He certainly left his signature, and a few day later taking the same walk, I was thinking about what one could write on the sand for another to read if it were the last thing one wrote, and then in the shadow I saw it. ' Jesus loves you ' ~ Daniel had backed up the path that day and with a stick in the dark earth had left his signature. I thought it was sure profundity. Hava Hava Gush Gush...n'all.......It is strange but if you ever consider how those three words sound coming from the mouths of different people you have known through-out your life, and then think about God saying those three words to you, that is extremely ...

[repeat] link
or listen to this audio......it will answer your question....if it doesn't I will eat this thread....Why does God allow suffering?

"have to agree with Whip on this one. More cruelty has been doled out over the years in the name of god than stalin and hitler combined. The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades alone prolly surpass the estimated 20 + million killed by Adolf and Uncle Joe."

Wanna add Mao into that too? Stalin killed way more than 20 million on his own. Hitler didn't just kill Jews, the war in europe killed millions more. Mao is thought to have purged 50+ million people. How about Edi Amin? Rwanda? Wanna start adding up the all the secular purges throughout history?

You're smart enought to know what sort of populations these nations had during the crusades, the inquisition, etc. I think you are making a facetious arguement when you blame Christianity for hundreds of millions of deaths.

One could also ask how many more deaths might have been without the stabilizing effects of religion.

You know what I think is hypocritical? The fact that anti-Christian types always talk of heaven like they would NEVER want to live in such a sickly sweet and carefree place, and then when they gripe about God they demand to know why we don't live in heaven to begin with...

"Ebola virus is caused by the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man? How 'bout cancer? Random car accidents? Earthquakes and Tsunami's and plagues?"

I never imagined you to make such a wussy arguement, Whip. You think we should live forever? You somehow can see the benefit of pain and suffering in terms of sex, but you can't see how suffering and hardship is part of life?

Come on. The Emporer's silly arguments are having too much impact I think.

God is the ultimate justification for death. You dont believe in my god or my church? That makes you an infidel by default. So you gotta go.

So you blame the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man and his actions on God?

I may have misunderstood thatoneguyinslc, by I thought his quote was in reference to what profess believers have done in the name of God,

The number of people killed during the inquisitions and the crusades

My point was that just because someone says they do something in the name of God does not make it God's fault.

What has a unborn child done to deserve being ripped apart limb from limb before ever being freed from the womb?

This is nothing more than the fruit of sin _whip. You see a man, society reaps what they sow. Rape, murder, abortion, all of this is the sad truth that sin is running rampant in our society and the government is not doing a good job of keeping it in check so it waxes worse.

Ebola virus is caused by the ignorance and spiritual blindness of man? How 'bout cancer? Random car accidents? Earthquakes and Tsunami's and plagues?

The Lord is going to have his way in the whirlwind and the storm. Concerning the lesson or judgement, who are we to question God. You and I will never be anymore than a piece of clay on the potters wheel. I think that is what you problem is, you know in the day that ye eat therof ye shall be like God knowing good from evil. _whip you are not satisfied being a piece of clay.

The Emporer's silly arguments are having too much impact I think.

The same word, the same spirit, the same lie.

You know what I think is hypocritical? The fact that anti-Christian types always talk of heaven like they would NEVER want to live in such a sickly sweet and carefree place, and then when they gripe about God they demand to know why we don't live in heaven to begin with...

So very true... we see things not as they are but as we are. When we look at the circumstances of life through the eyes of selfishness.. we generally tend to disagree with what God has done.

preacherman

If God were to be "teaching us lessons" in this fashion, then how can He be a loving God without equally being a cruel and capricious God? [ your quote little_whip]

Human nature is what is really at stake here, and as far as we can see, History has a track record that is more equal to Paul's reference in Romans 3:10-18.... Did we not help the Oscars shower trophies on Silence of the Lambs, and so many brutal movies, did we help the vote that has seen 35 000 000 children killed in America over the last 25 years, some as late as full term, with their little brains sucked out and their heads left in the birth canal.

The fact that Jesus placed himself lower than the woman he was called upon to judge and showing the brave shoulders that were eventually to carry all of mankind's sin on the cross. I can only see the Mercy of GOD, James said,'For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.'

Oh, little_whip,
You illiminated 'free choice'. Oh, the joys of being a moral relativist. Sort of like a philosophical kameleon. One minute you are all over there the next over there, I hear a little bell. Ding, ding, ding.....third time out. Human nature in whichever cabinet it is displayed amounts to the same, it is evil. We are at the Mercy of God, and thank God that there is mercy to be found at the cross.

I've heard your perspective before L_W, and I respect your beliefs. I think you skirted my point though.

Let's remove everything that people blame God for, all at once. No sin, no violence, no suffering, no needs, perfect health, everything, forever. Do you think a child would develop in any reasonable human way? What kind of kids do we get when we raise them reasonably close to those circumstances? Little, brain dead monsters more often than not.

If I could put my child in a little, safe padded room and keep her like a doll in perfect health, I wouldn't. If I could stand over her day and night until she's 80 and make sure she never faces danger or hardship, I wouldn't.

Doest that mean I delight at her suffering? Does that make me party to it? Heck, I could move to Alaska, home school, and she'd never see any of the parts of the world that I think are vile.

Why don't I? By leaving her here am I party to the vileness? How then is God party to it because he won't just stick us in a safe little room?

**

Did you see Constantine? I'm sure aeryk and preacherman would hate it on site, but there were some neat points therein. There's one spot where the angel is talking to Constantine who claims to "Believe". The angel says, "You don't believe, you KNOW."

There's a big difference. There'd be no benefit in growing up in a world that required no struggle or faith. We see that for our kids, and I think God sees the same thing for us.