I think you are crass for thinking that anyone here would think someone deserved to be beheaded for speaking their mind. That's the problem I have with you. Anyone that differs with you seems to be dismissed outright, as if we all "hate God", even if we differ on small details.

Honestly, if God told John to go and tell Herod that he was in the wrong, great, he did the right thing. Me, personally, I don't think I have been mandated to mess with the mote in someone else's eye until I have dealt with the beam in my own.

That's what is really scary about you and a few others I have run into. You seem to think that when God was talking to John the Baptist, or Jesus was talking to the Apostles, or Paul was talking to the Corinthians, that they were talking to you. You seem to think that any mandate to them is a mandate to you.

You berate me time and again for not being outspoken enough, for not letting my light shine. At the same time, there are other Christians that would berate you for not taking up serpents or speaking in tongues. There are others that would berate THEM for eating pork and going to chuch on Sunday instead of Saturday. Yes, Christians that believe that such Old Testement law wasn't changed. They feel as you do that they have a mandate to straighten you out as well.

You think you have a handle on things, and God bless you for it. The only problem I see is there are many, many people that read the Bible just as much as you, that can quote it just as easily as you, and that are just as sure they are right, and yet DIFFER with you.

God bless you for being so sure about what you believe in this day and age, but you don't seem interested in leading people to God. You seem interested in straightening out Christians. Personally, I think you have a lot of work to do on those who reject God outright before you start fine-tuning believers.

Why do Preah's sermons make you so in his face all the time. You sort of poison the thread before it gets going. I have found that you can do one of a number of things but you choose to let Preach's sermons nest in your consciouness, when you could let them fly over your head. Now let me have look at what you said, in more detail.

'I don't think I have been mandated to mess with the mote in someone else's eye until I have dealt with the beam in my own.' What makes you so sure that preach has not got clear vision and is just sharing from the light that has been granted him?
'You seem to think that any mandate to them is a mandate to you.' If God has done this Baker, you will be kicking against the spikes/pricks.
'They feel as you do that they have a mandate to straighten you out as well.' - That is fine 'judgment after all begins, with the House of God.
'DIFFER with you.' ~ I am sure that Preach is aware of this....this is common knowledge.
'I think you have a lot of work to do on those who reject God outright before you start fine-tuning believers.'~one has to be so careful when you judge other people's words that you don't end up playing God.

Baker is Preach, hitting a nerve or are you just being overly sensitive?

"You seem to have issues with everyone who does not think the way you do."

Don't project this on me. This whole thing started when I dared say out loud that I believed evolution was the means God used for creation. You and Preacherman started letting me know that I didn't know God's word and that I had better straighten up. You and preacherman told me that I must "hate God" because my beliefs didn't agree with yours.

"I think Baker is one of those (whatever) Christians..."

Sound sickeningly familiar? Every single time I tried to post something in the religion section, you guys felt the need to judge my beliefs. And now, you whine saying I am persecuting you for asking you not to persecute people? I simply point out that you guys aren't practicing what you preach.

You claim to worry about souls, and do your best to drive them away from Christianity.
You claim to not be religious, and focus on nothing but religion.
You tell people to "let their light shine", and then call them devils when they express anything you don't agree with.

"what you are doing is perhaps pretty close to what Herod did when he granted the wish to his daughter?"

---When I tell preacherman that he shouldn't try to impose his idea of God on others, you equate it to beheading John the Baptist.

---I speak my beliefs, and you guys say I "hate God", brushing off my beliefs, and yet are perfectly Christian.

So, I can't tell you to stop name calling and persecuting people for their beliefs, but you can tell me what to believe. Make sense? Nope.

I don't have a single, teeny problem with what you believe. You could express it til you pop. When you come into a public venue and berate people's beliefs, claiming not to be judgmental, and nit-pick about religion while claiming not to be religious... yeah, expect this sort of thing.

P.S. If my replies don't make sense to bystanders, it is because Aeryk, as usual, changed his post after I replied. The reply was meant for him, so I guess that is all that matters...

P.S.

Aeryk, if you hadn't noticed, you have long since been removed from my "Shake the dust off my feet" list. I have noticed and appreciated the trouble you've gone to broadening your expression here and telling people who you are, and frankly I am more open to your ideas because of it. I wish preacherman would put a face to the name as well.

You and preacherman must think I hate you, but I don't. If I did, I wouldn't think you merited discussion. To me, seeing you guys talk about religion is like watching someone who claims to be a master carpenter burn down houses. Then, when I talk about my home, you show up with your matches and make suggestions.

Yes, maybe I have slipped from the defensive to the offensive. If I have come across as though I am Herod I apologize. It had been a long, long time since anyone called me a devil and told me I hated God.

Yes, it has happened before and the ironic part is you guys would differ with those people as much as you differ with me. You would tell them THEY hated God and were going to hell, they'd tell you that YOU hated God and were going to hell, and everyone would tell me that *I* hate God and am going to hell.

My point is, you'll never see me tell someone they hate God, and you'll never see me tell any Christian they are going to hell. If you want to know our difference, there it is. You won't catch me trying to lead someone to God who already claims to be there. Their relationship with Him is their business.

Sho, I don't know how to respond to you words. Firstly, just incase anyone is reading and does not understand. I felt compelled to reply to your initial article. Which was early this morning....I had to take Joshua to the orthodonotist...what a word..orthodonotist...anyhow. I kept thinking about what you said, and how I had replied. I really felt like I had not heard you. So on returning, I went to the computer and saw you had not replied, so yet I decided to change my response to your words. Obviously, as is the nature of dialogue, very often we are thinking and feeling things simultaneously. You know what I mean?

Hence, [and I do chuckle here]...you were replying as I was changing...sort of like the change of guard at the old Royal Palace in London.] Suffice to say I would like to admit to you, a truth.

Though, I have found your words to be very cutting edge, I believe the time has come to put down the swords and shake a hand of fellowship. I am sorry, if I ever misunderstood you my brother. God forgive me, and I pray you can do the same. You have a solid mind and a good comprehension on matters theological.

As to earlier discussion, or rather heated dialogue tending to angry exchanges, far from the edifying conversation that we are commanded to behave in a way that is befitting the Gospel we claim has saved us.

Inasmuch as the Evolution Debate, I do remember every word, well more the general feeling of angst, from both myself and yourself. Let me say quite sternly here, [not angrily, but lovingly, as a brother to a brother/sister or friend.] I uncovered in the midst of these fiery debates that firstly. There is not need for it. Secondly, that if a believer in Jesus chooses to believe in an old earth, or a young earth or dinosaurs or dragons or whatever, that is their own right and choice. Obviously on matters of faith we need to stand agreed that only Jesus Christ is able to justify us, for upon our own righteousness, there is no more than sinking sand. This is not neccessary to discuss, though certainly a good one for future discussion. [I am having a warm feeling here.]

Subsequent, to our discussion, which to me were very frightening, as I have not met anyone who opposses basic doctrines and sets themselves so directly in front of other believers. However as you have explained you are a good person and have not bad intentions. This I do accept, and it is apparent to me there are really a lot of undisclosed issues...I did not understand the reference in your intial, first posting:-

At the same time, there are other Christians that would berate you for not taking up serpents or speaking in tongues. There are others that would berate THEM for eating pork and going to chuch on Sunday instead of Saturday. Yes, Christians that believe that such Old Testement law wasn't changed. They feel as you do that they have a mandate to straighten you out as well.

This is a very confusing statement, which I hope you will clarity. Surely you are referring to the Seventh Day Adventists. These are issues of sanctification, not salvation. Or what happens after an individual has come to follow Christ. I personally am reading ' The Great Controversy ' by Ellen G White. Okay, the future prophecy stuff has been proved to be wrong, but she has some very wonderful insights into the Christian walk. Unfortunately she came unstuck on the prophetic side which I am studying, so her doctrine has become of intrigue to me, as well as Charles Taze Russell, and no offence to you but from what I have read of you writing so far, you appear to me to have a lot of similair ideas to the Christadelphians or the original Bible Students. The area of doctrine is a very terrible one when it comes to dialoguing in this way. I am not aware if you find it as such. So my latest move has been to steer well away from such shores and go for a more accessible type of dialogue/discussion. I hope we can put all the past words to rest and forge ahead into more productive areas...I refer to my latest thread on being thankful....hope you enjoy....

Oh, one last thing. The problem with the position a believer holds in the area of Evolution is extremely serious. If one ventures into the Darwinian Theory and attempts to synthesize from it some form of half truth combined with a biblical one, I am afraid that eventually one's faith will end up bankrupt, in much the same as Darwins did, and Templeton, and many others who eventually renounced there faith in God. So if there is anything to be gleaned from our many words with far to many thoughts, it is that I am endeavouring to let you know that I do not mean you harm, but am only doing what any brother might do for another, just washing your feet.

When you see this icon, you will no that I am finished replying:-

"Secondly, that if a believer in Jesus chooses to believe in an old earth, or a young earth or dinosaurs or dragons or whatever, that is their own right and choice."

That's all I ask. Feel free to state your beliefs as well, from the rooftops if need be. When you liken people who believe in evolution to monkeys, though, you are no different than the Atheists who try to paint Christians as ignorant followers of superstition.

"I did not understand the reference in your intial, first posting"

Perhaps Christianity is more homogeneous where you live, but here in the US there is a different flavor on every corner. Adventists were one group I mentioned, but there are also pentacostal snake handlers and poison drinkers, MBE's Christian Science, the whole faith healing/speaking in tongues crowd, etc.

I have personally spoken with people who believe that unless you speak in tongues you haven't really given your soul to God. I have met people who believe that God ordained Christians to handle snakes and drink poisons. Many folks believe that taking your child to the doctor shows you lack Christian faith.

Every one of those people have scripture to back up what they do as well, and beat you with it as often as possible. That, to me, is the silly part when I see preacherman act as if HIS ideals are so patently obvious. There are other people within miles of him that would disagree just as vehemently, and have scripture to back themselves up, too.

So where does that leave us? Faith. I don't believe in denying a child medicine or handling snakes, and my soul isn't going to be judged by their standard, it is going to be judged by God's standard. We come to that understanding through our relationship with God; that "still small voice".

If this were just about scripture, then we'd all read it and see the same thing. Instead, ten people in the same room will generally read ten different things. Without spiritual guidence you end up with the literalist oddities I mentioned. I don't think any of us are in the position to be telling other Christians how to fine-tune their lives. On the contrary, there are far too many people with no relationship with God at all to spend our time telling other Christians that they "hate God".

I can only agree with you upon one truth. It is a start. The still small voice....

Whoa… looks like this thread has been pretty busy today. This is the way I like to see it.

Like aeryck, I read both Baker’s second post and aerycks first response early this morning before going to work. I came very close to responding but felt the time to reflect during the day would better serve everyone involved.

I feel it necessary to share with aeryck, and others who did not have the opportunity to read angelamarie88 post concerning the intrusive feeling that she gets from the casual mention of the name of Jesus. It appears that she has deleted the post or I was just unable to find it on her history of blogs. To get the full context of what was said by everyone, you would have needed to read on your own. I do not want to labor what Mr. Baker said or what I or anyone else said, but my hope is she deleted after realizing contradiction of her message. She professed that she was a Christian, and in the same breath stated that ashe felt intruded upon when another believer spoke His name.

Act 4:20 when they were forbidden to teach in the name of Jesus, their response “for we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard”. I would to God that there were more believers like this today.

Bakerstreet you should be more careful of your accusation. I never told angelamarie88 that she hated God, and I have never told you that. I do not know your heart, but with all confidence I can say, you need a better understanding of God’s Word, especially if you are going to promote our Christ in a public venue.

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

preacherman

"Bakerstreet you should be more careful of your accusation. I never told angelamarie88 that she hated God, and I have never told you that."

You priased aeryk for doing it, and joined in on numerous occasions by telling me what sort of sub-standard Christian you think I am.

"I would to God that there were more believers like this today."

That wasn't what her blog was about. It was about people who feel it necessary to work Jesus into every sentence. People who feel compelled through holier-than-thou sensibilities or lack of faith to lean on religious talk every moment of the day.

"I do not know your heart, but with all confidence I can say, you need a better understanding of God’s Word, especially if you are going to promote our Christ in a public venue."

And with that you dodge almost everything I challenged you with. 'nuff said I think. I can only waste my time typing so much stuff that goes unacknowledged. I made every effort in reply #4. Again, I think it shows how truly disinterested preacherman is with people, as compared to how interested he is in simple condemnation.

You go on pretending that you have a "better understanding of God's Word", when all you actually have is a different opinion about it.

There are followers of numerous denominations who are just as steeped in the Bible, have just as much scripture to back them up, and who would no doubt disagree with YOU as much as you disagree with me.

John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets, and as such I am convinced he knew how to listen to God. [..the still small voice..] It is the responsibility of every one who names the name of Christ to depart from iniquity. That is the standard, and no amount of debating or discussion will change that one. Inasmuch as being the 'lone ranger' doing the whole thing on your own. Scripture does speak of ministries that have been given for the perfecting of the saints in righteousness. Also there is a definite ministry of the Holy Spirit to obviously bring about Holiness among the Children of God. These are unquestionable facts, laid down in the Scriptures, differ with them all you will, but you will find yourself resisting the change. We are also called to humble ourselves, not thinking ourselves greater than any of the other sheep, but soberly, according to our faith. Though we are called to work out our own salvation, the reference is in regard to working with God, so it is hardly alone...the same Scripture says, 'God is an all consuming fire'.

We have here an opportunity for deep insight, all the above now put in the past, I would like to return to the one thing that struck me in what you said Baker, and I believe it is intensley unifying and illumating. Let me share the passage from Jesus' words.

'What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.'

I have been to this place, and my 15 year old son is up the mountain today, not by any prompting on my part, but from what I know of God's marvelous way with the human soul. My son Joshua has gone to listen for the 'still small voice' of the Shepard. This the same voice that you Baker my brother have admitted to listening too, the same one Preach listens to before he goes to an actual church not this frameless thought pool, to counsel the demon possessed, to heal the blind, to set the captives free. I do not see three seperate individuals anymore, I see God at work in our midst.

I implore you not to miss hearing this 'still small voice' of God.

'Aeryk, for all your supposedly 'deep' metaphysical ponderings, you responded once and quickly went MIA from the discussion my Husband, (EmperorofIceCream) was trying to engage you in.' - your quote little_whip

I had not idea. I am not one of those Mormon's out to fish disciple or two, and will happily return to the dialogue. I was however under the impression that there was very little I wanted to say to your fire breathing husband. Pardon me, but he seems to be connected to some of the devil's that I got off my back a decade ago. I would be happy to break it to him gently or privately, as this forum is far from adequate to deal with the hell pit that he is digging himself into. I had a spirit witch, who was second to Endor, that controlled my writing abilities, so I do not have a whole lot of respect for that realm. Little black demon boys and fat demon Lords, I had my share of playing in the mud pond. Eventually, my Mother, God rest her soul got me out of the fire. Salvation army lasses in bonnets tend to know just how to get devils to leave. I only have one thing to say to anyone who is stupid enough to tamper in the dark realm, get out before it swallows you whole.

...now about the still small voice....anyone listening?

'...remind me of all the reasons i turned my back in the first place.'

The Lord is compassionate and longsuffering and will never turn His back on you should you ever decide to return. I have found this to be true, and was startled to find it so after having been unfaithful to him for almost eight years. My heart had grown cold and hard and I had no more love for Jesus, but them little by little through the love of a most splendid Christian brother, Jesus blew so gently upon my heart by His Spirit, until eventually the smouldering flax began to ignite and a warm love for Jesus was born. Of all the things though the one I learned most was not to trust in uncertain emotions but in the Word of God. One quickly will be beguiled by the serpent should you go that way. Jesus is listening to this conversation, I wander what he wants to say, maybe if we listen, we can hear....really quietly......................................................................................................................................................................

And in reference to your controlling witch. You didn't God to save you. All you needed to do was perform the LBRP, make the Triangle of Manifestation, and kick the said witch's ass.
Little_Whip, you need to go a little slower, I am unable to reply if you are putting out such a huge volume of thoughts. Firstly, you assume that I was in a position to do this. I tried every concievable magick to reverse what had me holden, and only once it was finished did it show itself. Satan's realm is not weak and if you have turned your back on Jesus like I had, and you have. You will find yourself being deluded, you will even imagine yourself to have such powers. You have none. It is an illusion. No witch, necormancer or whatever new name is thought up has any power than that which is granted them by GOD....and I do mean specifically Jesus.
You have probably heard this before but it is not wise to curse or slander celestial beings, even Michael the Archangel when wrestling with Satan over the body of Moses, simply said, 'The Lord rebuke you'. It is my firm opinion that you are living in a delusion dear.

Why would God do for you what you're perfectly capable of doing for yourself?

There is much that we can do, and should do, namely obeying his command to love. The final duty of man is firmly underlined in the last passage of the last book King Solomon wrote.
However, as is the spirit of this world that imagines that God is not interested in the our lives directly, I would like to share that I have found Jesus to be most wonderful and willing to always be our servant.

This is something you need to sort out, it is not the first time you send on each others alias's, since you are both reading it doesn't really matter, from this day on, you are in my prayers to God. I trust that we will rest a little now, it is 6pm and I have to feed my sons, I pray Jesus is real to you. Emporer if you are like Whip, you are sweet people and I know we shall talk again. Bless God.




Please use the dragon to get back to your husbands original post, I have put a few entries their responding to both yourself and him.

Whew....email me please at Aeryck

little_whip / empororoficecream- same spirit

And they quickly abandon anything deeper than tossing Bible Quotes around, as witnessed here

and while preacherman made a few more comments, they were little more than regurgitated bits of scripture, offering no original thought or opinion at all.

My friend when contending with the realm of darkness, there is no deeper discussion than the Word of God. When contending for Truth there is no place for original thought or opinion AT ALL. For this scripture that you so flippantly disdain will be the very Word that judges one for eternity... pretty deep aeh?

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

preacherman